@verretor Still waiting for the event that makes crypto twitter flood back into Mastodon. I guess its a series of cuts, instead of just one big event.

@verretor Just like few people used Bitcoin way back. I'm comfortable being early.

@TallTim @verretor if you look outside of the bitcoinhackers instance you'll find a lot of other bitcoiners/interested people. Still quieter than Twitter overall, but the bitcoinhackers local timeline is deceivingly quiet. Discovering people to follow is trickier on mastodon

@htimsxela @TallTim @verretor maybe we should put up a follow list for newcomers? It's true that the federated structure of Mastodon is a bit surprising when you come from Twitter, a lot of interesting people are on other instances and you can't find them easily.
Another solution is to boost more those people so that they pop up in your instance own tl and others can discover them too

@Sosthene @htimsxela @verretor I agree that mastodon is like a throwback to fidonet. If you have people you follow on other instances please post them so I can check them out. Appreciated.

@TallTim @Sosthene @verretor
here is a quick list of users I follow from other instances that post btc/otherwise-sorta-related-and-interesting stuff. In no particular order:
@harding @orionwl @laurentmt @stevenroose @AvatarX @fribbledom @liberliver @emzy @waxwing @raucao @vbhide @pjb @taoeffect @kukks

I haven't really explored the Gab instance at all, but I get the impression there are more btc-interested users there.

@htimsxela @TallTim @Sosthene @verretor @harding @orionwl @laurentmt @stevenroose @fribbledom @liberliver @emzy @waxwing @raucao @vbhide @pjb @taoeffect @kukks Yes, there are definitely more people interested in bitcoin on gab than BitcoinHackers. Like by a lot. probably 10x more. If you join Gab, join my group while you are at it. ;)

gab.com/groups/1898

Follow

@Sosthene @AvatarX Yes. The entire point of this fediverse (and Gab using a fork of Mastodon) is that you can follow anyone on any compatible server/network.

@raucao @Sosthene @AvatarX Yeah you shouldn't need another account at all. I don't know how the Gab groups thing works, though. Perhaps for that you need a Gab account.

@stevenroose @Sosthene @AvatarX If they decided to implement groups without creating a standard to federate them, then frankly I would leave that instance out of principle. The only way we can protect our online spaces is by not having a single point of failure.

@raucao @Sosthene @AvatarX I think it's kind of the other way around. #Gab used to be entirely centralized (it might even be older than #Mastodon) and only recently they decided to federate so they moved to a Mastodon backend. So I can imagine if they had the groups feature before they federated, that they wanted to keep it, even though there is no federation protocol for them yet.
That being said, I have had to block way more Gabbers than other people, so I don't have a positive exp with them.

@stevenroose @Sosthene @AvatarX Ah right, they may have dragged them over from before. Good point.

But if that's the case then they had quite some time to work on federating them. So if there's not even an experiment yet, then it means they're not interested.

@raucao @Sosthene @AvatarX Well in all fairness, they just "joined" the effort in a bid to be more open, right? It's not necessarily up to them to lead the effort of expanding the features of the ActivityPub standard. I suppose if our community comes up with a way to federate groups, they will join it. But given they are not a commercial company making money with their platform (AFAIK), you can't blame them for not giving back. They have other things to deal with, I guess.

@stevenroose @Sosthene @AvatarX That 2018 report is interesting. You have to be a pro member on a paid subscription to create and manage groups.

@raucao @stevenroose @Sosthene It has two sides: Gab and Gab Pro. I was given Gab Pro by a donor. The gab pro benefits right now include the creation of groups. And higher limits of storage for video, audio and photos.

@stevenroose @raucao @Sosthene @AvatarX
The so called #fediverse is a huge joke, it does not connect people at all, its a walled snowflake fediverse where everyone is afraid of hurty words and need their teddy bears. Many instances like #Mastodon have blocked #Gab because its not PC enough, not leftwing enough. Most of the fediverse is full of silly limp dick #soyboys. #ActivityPub #Pleroma

@Sosthene @MarcusAgrippa @stevenroose @raucao Gab is just like Twitter previous to 2014. So, I would ask where is the lie in what Marcus said. Even if he is been a overly harsh about it? It was Mastodon Devs and a few of Mastodon based "activists" who made quite a big deal of Gab entering the fediverse. Even if given how Mastodon and the Fediverse works. They should not had such an hysterical reaction.

@AvatarX @Sosthene @MarcusAgrippa @stevenroose The lie is that Mastodon is an instance and/or that Mastodon devs can block Gab somehow. We are literally talking to each other right now, because what this person claimed is not true.

@raucao @Sosthene @MarcusAgrippa @stevenroose He said: "many instances have blocked gab". I don't see anywhere he claimed that mastodon devs did it. Neither did I. I did not said that.

@AvatarX Come on. Don't misquote people. He said "Many instances like have blocked ".

It's not my fault if people on your instance write dumb replies.

@AvatarX I'm done here. Please remove my name from further replies. Thank you.

@raucao I wont. Use your block feature. Be a coward.

@AvatarX Ugh. Why would you want to be an annoying troll like that? I don't have to block you, and I'm fine with reading other posts from you. Grow up.

@raucao Well, I am also fine with reading yours.

@raucao I am guessing he meant it as like mastodon(.)social. Now who is playing dumb?

@AvatarX @raucao @MarcusAgrippa @stevenroose see? We were all having a quite interesting conversation, and now we will argue about bullshit because of this guy. Can we please just cut it off here?

@Sosthene @AvatarX Apparently some people over there think that the only way to lead a conversation is to somehow "win" it by achieving that the other person blocks you.

What a kindergarten.

@Sosthene @raucao @AvatarX
I blocked the Marcus guy. The Fediverse is a free place where instances are free to do whatever they like. And that can be allowing hate speech just as well as censoring hate speech.

@stevenroose @Sosthene @AvatarX Exactly. And a lot of instances haven't blocked the entire Gab main instance. I would even wager that the vast majority have not.

One of my favorite Mastodon features is that users can block instances for themselves, and only themselves, if they do not wish to interact with specific ones.

@raucao @Sosthene Not my case. I am happy to argue for the long run.

@AvatarX @raucao technical issue? Anyway I was also thinking your skin is not so thin 🙂

@Sosthene @raucao The opposite. I am just quite experienced in internet loud discussion. You can also not get to be the second most active mod over at /r/bitcoin during 2017 if you have thin skin. I also get at least a hundred of angry messages a year. It comes with the job of moderating stuff online.

@AvatarX @MarcusAgrippa @stevenroose @raucao sure I'm pissed of by the SJW spirit of some Mastodon dev too, but I don't go on an unsollicited rant on threads that have nothing to do with it, that's just annoying. Esp. on an instance that has always been quite supportive and always said it's not gonna block gab, who is @MarcusAgrippa trying to convince here? Sorry that's just annoying troll behavior

@AvatarX @Sosthene @MarcusAgrippa @raucao
(1) Gab is part of the Fediverse he's calling a joke/snowflake
(2) mastodon.social is principally unrelated to the Mastodon software
(3) instances that block Gab do so mainly because their content moderation doesn't align with Gab's. That is mostly related to hate speech and spam. Nothing to do with political orientation..
(4) his post was totally unsolicited in our conversation. We didn't speak a bad word about Gab, we were just observing.

@stevenroose @AvatarX @Sosthene @raucao
"Nothing to do with political orientation".<<< Oh please, you cannot be that naive surely.
#fediverse #Gab

@stevenroose There is no such thing as hate speech. Why? because it cannot really be defined effectively. Which is why it only becomes equal to = speech someone don't likes. And the reason to be against such term is that it can be used so broadly and ambiguously that there is just no merit to the term. But I welcome you to define what constitutes hate speech. And then ask you if you believe that anything denominated as such by any platform can really be considered as such in general.

There is only legal speech and illegal speech. With illegal speech being all that directly incites to actual real world violence. illegal speech is not allowed on gab.

When it comes to spam. Gab is actually quite strict on that and it is also against porn and lolicon on the main Gab instance. None of those things are allowed in Gab.

@AvatarX Well if you want to talk definitions, spam is defined as "unsolicited or undesired electronic messages". So the way Marcus randomly jumped on a discussion just to make some rant is definitely spam in my opinion.

@stevenroose If the context that it happened within a publicly available conversation is ignored. Along other usual characteristics of Spam. Maybe.

I nuke out at least 30 spam messages of spam from the filters in the groups I manage every day. So, I also know what Spam looks like very well.

@raucao @stevenroose @Sosthene I do not know if those kind of features can be federated. But probably only if you use a Gab based instance. Gab is also going with its own backed to which it is being ported to as the mastodon base is just not made to accommodate a mega single instance like Gab.

@raucao @stevenroose @Sosthene @AvatarX they have no idea how federation or the AP standard works and frankly aren't interested in it.

@lain @Sosthene @AvatarX@gab.com @raucao @stevenroose they mostly transitioned to ap to "own the libs", just look how little effort they put into federation, their own members only see it as a tool to disavow being from gab.

@stevenroose @raucao @AvatarX just noticed AvatarX is indeed on gab, so definitely can follow people there. But I can't open the link to his group, so I guess this feature is indeed not federated

@stevenroose @raucao @Sosthene Groups, Quote posting among other features like the encrypted text private messages and the chat channels. Or parallel developments like Dissenter and Gab Trends among other upcoming ones do need a Gab Account. Gab is now its own ecosystem within the fediverse. And as a single instance it is the biggest and most active now.

@AvatarX @stevenroose @Sosthene > And as a single instance it is the biggest and most active now.

Whoever considers that a good thing for a decentralized system has clearly not understood why decentralized systems are good in the first place. It's like saying "This bitcoin mining pool has 70% of overall mining share. Isn't it awesome? You should all come over here and mine on this one, too!"

@raucao Not the point of Gab. Gab is more about being somewhat distributed with an option for some decentralization to those that need it or want it by being able to run a gab instance or gab spin-off like that one called Spinster. I would also not call mastodon truly decentralized. Few things qualify of such classification.

@AvatarX Decentralized is not the same as distributed. ActivityPub as a protocol is federated, which is decentralized. It is not distributed, like a 100% p2p system is. Gab is a little bit federated, but apparently not decentralized in all features.

@raucao Federation cannot ever be truly decentralized. But I guess we will agree to disagree on that.

@AvatarX Talking about "Mastodon" instead of AP or the fediverse means you should learn more about how this all works and just how decentralized all of this is outside of Gab IMO.

@raucao I have been following it for over a decade. I was in pump.io, identica, etc, etc from where everything the fediverse iss based on comes from. You are making a lot of assumptions and it is clear you do not know me.

@AvatarX Then why not use correct terminology? And why tell people to use non-federated groups? I'm merely responding to the content of your posts.

@AvatarX I'm happy to agree to disagree though. Have a nice day.

@raucao that reply clearly stated and I quote: "If you join gab, join my group"

So, I never said that part was federated or implied it was.

@raucao @AvatarX @Sosthene Well I often don't agree with that view. #federation and total #decentralization are different goals. Decentralization is impossible with federation, but federation on itself has merit and it a light form of decentralization.
As an example, I'd be totally fine with today's IM landscape if WhatsApp, Hangout, Facebook and WeChat would federate. It means choice. I can be the principalist while still be able to talk with the rest of the world.

@raucao @AvatarX @Sosthene Similarly, I think being a big platform is not a bad thing in itself, as long as you give your users choice to leave and don't require being part of the platform to consume its content. If Twitter would federate ActivityPub, it'd be good enough for me.
What I hate OTOH is platforms like Fb, Instagram or Pinterest where they require you to have an account in order to consume content.

@stevenroose @AvatarX @Sosthene FB and Google both federated messaging via XMPP before they closed themselves off. Similarly, Gab is closing group messages off already from the rest of the federation. Who's to say they won't do the same with AP eventually? I wouldn't bet my ass on it.

@raucao @stevenroose @Sosthene Well, gab is open source and its only position is to be part of the fediverse when it comes to the basic features. The rest is not dependent on them. Mastodon devs or other can grab from Gab whenever they want to.

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